Speaker 1: 0:04

As motorcycle riders, we love the open road, but it's even better when that road leads to an amazing destination. The Carousel of Happiness in Netherland, colorado, is one of those magical places I've often spoke about on this podcast. Wow, this place is amazing. It's a 1910 restored carousel but, unlike others, it was hand carved by one man named Scott, a Vietnam veteran. It took him 26 years to carve each of these animals that are on this carousel. It has been his hope, it has been his dream that this carousel in some way would touch the hearts of many people. In some way would touch the hearts of many people.

Speaker 1: 1:09

You know I'm incredibly fortunate to interview truly remarkable people from time to time on this podcast, in this case today, a person who shares her heart and her love for this carousel with her own listeners around the world through the Carousel of Happiness podcast. My wife and I are very much listeners, love it, and I'm so glad to share with you today a full-length conversation with my new friend, allie Wagner, the Outreach Director of the Carousel of Happiness, who also hosts their podcast. She's awesome, so find a comfortable place to be. I know you'll enjoy this conversation with Allie Wagner. Allie, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad to have you.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. Yeah, so, allie, what?

Speaker 1: 2:04

is your role at the Carousel of Happiness? Glad to have you. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. So, allie, what is your role at the Carousel of Happiness?

Speaker 2: 2:10

I am the Outreach Director for the Carousel of Happiness, which is actually a carousel, so that's one of the most common questions that we get when people walk into the space is, they say oh, wait, this is a carousel.

Speaker 2: 2:27

It is a carousel, but it's actually a really, really special carousel. It is a 1910 restored carousel but, unlike other restorations of carousels that try to take the carousel back to its original form, ours is a little different. Ours was hand carved by one man over the course of 26 years. And he carved this work of art because when he was a young man, he was 17 years old he went to Vietnam and he was experiencing as many people do was experiencing as many people do a really, really rough time there. And his sister had sent him a music box and this music box he would press up to his ear in between firefights. And he pressed that music box up to his ear and it was a way that he could regulate his nervous system. It was a way that he would. He'd be able to flush some of the adrenaline and cortisol out of his body.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Some of the guys looked at pictures of their wives, some of them smoked. He didn't smoke. He just would put this up to his ear. And what he found in those quiet moments was that he saw this image of a carousel in a mountain meadow and he thought about what it would be like to be at a carousel in a mountain meadow and he didn't have any relationship with a carousel. He wasn't a big carousel person. This image really came out of nowhere, seemingly, and it provided him with a lot of relief at a time that he really really needed it. And when he came back from Vietnam he was still struggling the war hadn't quite left him, as is the case for many of our veterans and he struggled and he eventually decided what would happen if I tried to recreate this carousel, what would happen if I started to piece together this image in real life that had provided me with so much solace and peace. And he started carving slowly. He was not trained as a carver, he didn't know how to carve. He learned as he went, he learned through trial and error and eventually he got the hang of it and eventually he found a carousel frame and everything started to come together.

Speaker 2: 4:56

15 years later, the carousel has spun one point almost one.2 million writers, and so my job, going back to your original question, many, many minutes ago, my job is to tell that story. My job is to share what work of art Scott was able to create and how he was able to create it, because the Carousel now is a nonprofit organization. Scott literally built it himself and then donated it to a 501c3. And I'm the assistant director of that nonprofit wing of the Carousel. I host the carousels podcast where we tell stories about the carousel, and I know we'll talk about that on this podcast. But really my job is to help people understand how special of a place this is.

Speaker 2: 6:00

And one of the reasons I'm so excited to talk to you specifically is, as you know, the carousel is located on the Peak to Peak Highway, which is a very popular and very gorgeous ride that many riders, year after year, pass through the carousel and a lot of times they don't realize that we're there. And I am so excited to talk to you and share what the carousel is for motorcycle riders because I'd love for them to stop, I'd love for them to peek in, I'd love for them to learn more about the carousel, either through the podcast or walking through those doors. It's a three-minute ride. It is guaranteed to change your life. Ron can attest to this. We have so many stories of people that in hearing Scott's story and seeing that work of art and being in that space, they leave different and that's what we're really excited about at the Carousel.

Speaker 1: 7:05

Well, as I mentioned and as listeners are hearing your voice, they're probably thinking I know why Ron likes to talk to people like this because they're so inspiring, and you really really are. Oh man, there's so many things we could hit on. But yeah, let's just kind of start back the beginning for you, because I wanted to find out. We're just getting to know each other. We met face to face just a couple of times. Saw you at the coffee shop just for a few minutes. Last week, at the train car directly right next to the carousel, we said hi for a minute, but where did you grow up?

Speaker 2: 7:49

eye for a minute. But where did you grow up? So I laugh because there's a short answer. And then there's the real answer to that question. My dad was actually a Navy pilot and so we moved around a lot.

Speaker 2: 7:56

I was born in Maine but we lived on the East Coast, west Coast, overseas, pretty much anywhere except the mountains, which I eventually came to the mountains about almost a decade ago. But for the longest time I never lived anywhere that wasn't on the water. So that's sort of my consistent thread throughout all of these places that I've lived is that there's always been water nearby. But yeah, that's the long answer to that question. But part of the reason that I felt so drawn to the carousel and to Scott's story is because, you know, I'm a Navy brat. My dad was gone a lot. The work that he did was very important and also very challenging sometimes to be the child of someone doing that kind of work, and so I think there's a lot about Scott's story that resonates personally with me, which is part of the reason that I think the enthusiasm comes through.

Speaker 1: 9:00

I'm so curious too. You are such a good storyteller. Now we're most certainly going to have a link on this podcast episode to reach the carousel. Tell me if you're thinking differently here. But start at the beginning, at least the first couple of episodes. Then skip around if you want. But you really need that foundation, right. But people are going to hear that you are a very, very good story writer and especially good storyteller in your tone and your pace, the pausing, the thoughtfulness, all of that. Where did that come from? Are you especially trained in writing, or where did that come from?

Speaker 2: 9:45

I think there's a little bit of both. I have always been a storyteller. My parents would tell you that I was always sort of making up stories and telling little magical stories about unicorns and all sorts of silly things. So there's that element, and I think there's also the fact that I think the way that I I just naturally see the world in stories, I just naturally like to make those connections because they feel really satisfying to me. When I notice somebody is repeating something that I heard somewhere else, I get really excited because it feels like I'm actually in the middle of a story that's unfolding, and so I think I was just sort of always naturally wired that way.

Speaker 2: 10:40

I had a very, very different life. I worked as an intelligence analyst for the US military as well as a civilian. I wasn't an active duty and so I was in a very, very different world than I was in, than I am in right now. And then in 2010, much like the carousel, which is the year that the carousel opened in 2010, my life shifted to. I lost both of my parents in six months, and it was something that I know was one of those pivot points for me. And, quite frankly, I was in a windowless cubicle, driving to work in the dark and driving home in the dark, and couldn't quite figure out how I got in there and I still don't quite know how I got there, but I got there. And then, when my parents passed away, it was this eye opening opportunity for me to reflect on where it was that I was going, for me to reflect on where it was that I was going, and I saw everybody who worked for the government and they loved it so much and they felt so much passion and love for it, and I did not. I loved my job and there were elements of it that, like I got to see amazing places and meet interesting people, but my heart wasn't in it and I didn't really know that until that personal shift. So what ended up happening? Because my dad was in the Navy and I'm very comfortable traveling, I bought a one-way ticket to Nicaragua. I traveled the world for about 18 months because that was what I knew how to do. I knew how to be in a foreign place and navigate it. So it sounds very brave, but it really wasn't. It was just sort of what my body knew how to do and as I was traveling this was in 2010,.

Speaker 2: 12:39

So blogs were a thing. I started writing a blog and I started sharing some of the stories about the people that I was meeting, but more than that, I was sharing stories about how I was changing as I was going to these different places. And then I took all of those blog posts and I applied to graduate school with those blog posts and I got a scholarship to go get my MFA in storytelling. So well in writing, but really, as, as as I see it, I'm a storyteller before I'm a writer, and so I did have some training. And then, in 2016, I graduated, and usually when you have a master's in writing, they say all right, well, you're going to go teach at a college, now you're going to go help other people, right.

Speaker 2: 13:30

And I was working on a writing project, I was working on a book that I just wasn't ready to put down, and so I decided, instead of taking a very stable teaching job, I was going to bartend on a dude ranch in Wyoming. So I had, I did well, so I I went to Jackson, but this is how little I knew about, like the mountains, I thought it was in Colorado. It was not. Thankfully, I figured that out before I went Right and I fell in love with the mountains. I fell in love with climbing up things and going down things and putting things on my feet when there's snow on the ground, and I fell in love with wide expanses of nature something for my nervous system that I wasn't quite expecting. I met my husband, who was a lifelong wildland firefighter and ski bum, and so for the last decade or so I've been playing in the mountains and telling stories along the way, and just grateful that I get to tell the carousel story.

Speaker 1: 14:41

Oh yeah, and for those who don't know where Jackson is, as we're talking about, uh, it's in Northern Wyoming. So you have two national parks really, really close, right. So you've got the Grand Tetons are right there, and then just the other side, like right next to it to the North, uh, is Yellowstone National Park. So, oh yeah, you're in very much cowboy country, for sure. You're also, as you know, in Jackson. You're in movie star country, right, because there's lots of very, very wealthy people who love that area and ski at Jackson Hole. And I was up there myself, along with my brother-in-law. He came out from Texas to go motorcycling with me. We actually talked about it a little bit on one of the episodes of the podcast, but we motorcycled up through there through the what was it called Chief Joseph Highway, I think Also Beartooth Highway, that was right up in there and, oh yeah, that's just beautiful and it's very much wilderness out there Once you get outside of the movie star homes and then, oh, my goodness, it is some serious wilderness out there, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 15:56

It's absolutely gorgeous. It's a very, very special place. There's a reason why people want to experience it. There's a reason why it's very common. So I originally had only planned to be there for a summer but, as frequently is the case, I ended up staying. I was actually in a relationship with. I was in a long distance relationship and was intending to come back, and then it eventually got to the point where I said you know what? I'm not coming.

Speaker 1: 16:27

You had your priorities figured out.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Well, how did? How did your career path and life path and all that bring you to this place? So, also so that others know, you're in Nederland, colorado. I see by your background you're at the carousel right.

Speaker 2: 16:46

No, I'm actually not. My office is painted with neon, orange and pink, so that is why Ron thinks that I'm in a place designed for children. It is not. It's where I live.

Speaker 1: 17:01

I meant it as a compliment, but yeah, I thought it was just. Oh, you got some kind of cool hippie thing going on in the background. That must be the carousel.

Speaker 2: 17:08

Yeah, no, it's just my little cool hippie office I love it. So how did you?

Speaker 1: 17:15

find the carousel, or how did the carousel find you?

Speaker 2: 17:24

So the short answer is that there was a job opening, just like any other job. But I will say that it did feel like I was called. I saw the position initially and the way that it was written, I didn't quite feel as excited about the position and kind of let it go by and was looking at other things and things in my life were starting to shift and was looking at other things and things in my life were starting to shift and eventually it just felt like something that kept coming back and I think that's why you know the way that I'm wired to see details and stories. You know, if I were telling the movie that is my life, I would have to acknowledge that yes, it was somebody else saying, hey, you should apply for that, or somebody else sending me the posting over and over again. So it was a little bit of just your standard this is how you apply for a job. And then there was a little bit of carousel magic, as I like to call it, and in the process of my interview I really sat down and I did something a little bit different than I did, than I've done for interviews in the past, because I'm a reasonably communicative human and I am empathetic, so I understand really what people want me to say, you know, and so I can go through an interview and not be dishonest in any way, but really find that common ground.

Speaker 2: 18:42

And for my carousel interview I did something completely different. I didn't plan the answers to those questions, like I didn't practice that. I sat with my eyes closed and meditated for a few minutes and, just like Scott's image of a carousel in a mountain meadow, I thought a podcast, that's what would make me more excited about this, that's how I could bring me to this position. And so, instead of planning for my interview, I spent all of the time plotting out different example episodes that I thought would be really fun, and pulled a bunch of stuff that I could find from the internet and and created these little mini vignettes of what I saw the podcast could be.

Speaker 2: 19:31

And then I went into my interview and I said, yes, all of those things on the list that you want me to do, I can do those and I can do them with an open heart, but this is how you're going to crack my heart wide open.

Speaker 2: 19:43

This is how I think that I can bring who I am as a person to the carousel for its benefit and also for my own enjoyment. And credit to my boss, melody, credit to Scott, credit to the board members, for really and that's the way it always is at the carousel and that's one of the things that I've noticed in Scott's story is so many times he bumps into the right person at the right time with the right skills and doesn't second guess it, he just says, yes, let's see how it goes, let's play, let's be curious. And that's something that I'm grateful for in this work environment. And it's been huge to me in my own expression of my own ideas, it's been huge to me in my own evolution as a human to have a place where they just sort of say, hey, we see you for what you are, come be you with us. And so that's how I ended up at the carousel.

Speaker 1: 20:47

So the podcast was not in the job description.

Speaker 2: 20:52

It was not.

Speaker 1: 20:53

Just brought that. Oh, my goodness, I am so glad you did, because so I again. I work part-time, have worked part-time at at Green Jeep Tours, nestes Park, colorado. Nikki Schultz is the owner there female owner. You need to support them and I love it. Love, love, love the job as a tour guide when I get a chance to do that in Rocky Mountain National Park.

Speaker 1: 21:13

But so many times visitors from even people coming from Denver, you know, but we have people coming from all over the country. So many have never heard about Nederland or they know about Nederland, never heard of the carousel. Oh, my goodness, my brain just explodes. Then I just tell them you have got to go to the carousel. And why should I do that? Because it'll change your life. There's one little reason.

Speaker 1: 21:41

But yeah, and I'm so glad that you brought to the table this idea of let's put it on the air, let's just be talking about it over and over and over again, and the depth that you go into on your episodes that always circle back to the ending don't delay joy, don't Delay Joy. This carousel about happiness, but it's about don't delay joy too, and I am so, so glad. I'd love for you to share too, and I'm going to put a link in here in the show notes too, about your visit with Steve Hartman from On the Road with CBS. So you were on TV or Scott was interviewed, and then the carousel Tell us, tell us about that. I'll certainly have a link to it. But how, how did you move?

Speaker 2: 22:29

up so it they actually reached out to us. It wasn't anything that. My understanding of the program is that originally it was a Charles Caroll program way back when um and that Steve wanted to. Um, steve wanted to bring it back. And basically he travels the United States and he finds inspiring people that are doing interesting, inspiring work that that uplifts others. And he had heard about the carousel and he reached out and came for a couple of days.

Speaker 2: 23:10

They spent most of their time at Scott's shop watching him work and also interviewing him about how he got here, what, what drew him to carousels all of the sort of standard questions. And then they were able to come visit the carousel and see it in action, experience what people experience every day, and we see it all of the time. People walk through the space and they immediately feel different and that's something that I noticed immediately when people walk in, because that's just sort of my natural wiring. But that's been the thing that's most exciting to me about the carousel is the energy underneath it. Yes, it's a beautiful work of art and, yes, scott is an amazing person, but there's a hum, there's a throbbing, there's a something underneath it, largely because of the way I think he created it underneath it, largely because of the way I think he created it, and so to have to be able to share that with CBS and then them in turn create such a lovely.

Speaker 2: 24:18

It's a very short story. I highly encourage anyone to listen to it. Thank you so much for posting that link, and then I will say that if that whets your appetite for more of Scott's story, listen to the first three episodes of the podcast. The first three episodes are Scott's journey in depth. It really goes into what, where his mindset was, what were the sort of pivot points along the way, how he got started and really how the carousel started to build some momentum. So we're so grateful to them for coming and visiting and really capturing the magic of it. And then, for those who are interested in a little bit more, check out the podcast. For those kinesthetic learners learners, though come into the carousel. Three minute ride's gonna spin you around. Everybody is guaranteed to turn into a seven-year-old as soon as the band organ starts going. It's just it happens. Doesn't matter how old you are, how young you are, how crabby of a mood you're in it just just changes people, and it was so lovely to be able to share that on CBS.

Speaker 1: 25:36

It is a magical place and I don't say that lightly because I'll give you an example. So my adult son and I, brad, he's 35. He's married. He's the father of one of my grandsons. He and I had a father-son few days at Disneyland. We just flew out together. We flew out together and I spent two days at Disneyland. We were in the studio audience for Jimmy Kimmel Live, which was fun. Yeah, we really enjoyed that. But we, of course, were on all the rides. I was loaded up on Dramamine so I could ride everything. We rode the classics, we rode Dumbo together, but I'll just take Dumbo, for example. Wonderful classic ride. It's beautiful, the music's, neat, knowing that something that Walt Disney had his fingerprints on. But all the animals are plastic.

Speaker 1: 26:45

It was last weekend got the book, the new hardcover book, with all the beautiful pictures and the descriptions that Scott has written about every single animal that's on the carousel and the meaning behind each one, even down to the detail of each one. To me, yeah, disneyland, disney World, fantastic, love it, love it, love it. But when you come to this little bitty place relatively small place compared to that in the mountains and learn, educate yourself on the depth of what's there, like the somewhere else piece. Oh, my goodness, just gets me every time to even try to describe that. There's a lot of depth. There's just more so than depth. There's so much love over and over in every piece.

Speaker 1: 27:38

Maybe one more reflection too as a tour guide, when I go out with people from LA, chicago, new York, people who have no experience with wilderness at all, no experience with wildlife at all, it opens their eyes to wow, that's just not a picture of an animal. There there is a mother elk with her little baby or twins, and just to be quiet and watch them. Animals are wonderful, and that's what I've so loved about reading, learning the stories of every single animal, whether it's one you ride or one that's in the scaffolding somewhere. Yeah, Every one of them have a story and a reason that they're there. Would you mind sharing, like it's in the book the koala, the story? Yeah, well, I think that that's just so touching.

Speaker 2: 28:43

Well so and I will actually send you this link, there was an Atlas Obscura documentary that they did specifically on the story of the koala and it's so going back to your original point, scott, before he carved every single animal, he wanted to research that particular animal and, because this was the late 80s, he did that by going to the library and he would check out books, folk tales, stories. He would read about the importance of this animal to indigenous communities. What did this animal represent in this particular area? How did this animal move? Why does it move that way? And part of that is just because Scott's naturally curious, but part of that is because he was recognizing that he wanted to infuse the work with that energy. As you know, because you listen to my podcast, I recently interviewed a woman who's a shamanic artist, who did the stained glass windows and the carousel, and she was describing her definition of shamanic art and essentially she was saying that shamanic art is essentially art that's intended to heal, art that's intended to heal, and the way that she takes, the way that she makes a piece of art that is healing, is that she infuses it with energy, she infuses it with good vibes, she channels, she uses her energy practices while she's making the art, and what's interesting is that Scott was doing that in the 80s and wouldn't necessarily consider himself to be a shaman at all Not that he's shared with me and so it was interesting to see that their practices were really similar and he just intuitively knew that he wanted to do that. And so I think that's one of the things that people experience is that you could take a robot. You could make all of those animals the exact same way that they're made, and the feeling is different. You're not going to get the same feeling walking through the space, and I think that's what people really resonate with. That's why people drag their friends to the carousel when everybody else has been on Dumbo, they've been on other carousels and they don't feel that feeling. The reason for that feeling is that each and every animal there are over 50 animals in the carousel, not to mention fairies, not to mention there is so much to see in there, and it is all been put there lovingly, with intention, by Scott, even if he didn't make the stained glass windows he bumped into Cypress. There was that carousel magic. They made that connection and then eventually they ended up working together, and so I think that's something that people really feel in their bodies when they go into the carousel.

Speaker 2: 31:57

You mentioned the somewhere else wall. So there is a wall. The carousel house itself is a 13 sided building and there is some. I think it's ancient Greeks, I don't remember, I think it's Pythagoras, maybe it's some old Greek guy who essentially the belief was that 13-sided figures were auspicious in some way. They were irrational. They were sort of these portals into another dimension, and Scott found that interesting and amusing and he decided that he wanted to take one of the walls of a carousel house and dedicate it to somewhere else. So the idea is that we're all here, in our physical bodies, here, and that there's also somewhere else and we don't need to put another name for it other than that, because we're going to welcome all traditions, all faiths, all beliefs, and on that wall we have animals that are halfway in and halfway out.

Speaker 1: 33:09

There is, scott's leg is on its way in. I didn't catch that part, oh interesting.

Speaker 2: 33:13

So Scott put himself there. There is a he had learned when he was working on the somewhere else wall that, because of climate change, polar bears and grizzly bears were now able to mate because of changes in in climate and changes in migration and mating patterns and all of that kind of stuff, and so he thought that was interesting. So there's a polar bear tossing a cub over to a grizzly bear who's on the other side, and we have people who have ashes of family members, have mementos, have little notes to people that are on the other side, and I think that's something that Scott does really well. A lot of us we have fear around what's coming after what we know to be our current existence, and because he's been in environments where he's lost people very young he's almost passed very young I think he understands the balance between here and there, and so it's a great example of a detail in the carousel that's there that has so much meaning for people.

Speaker 2: 34:35

We have people come in all of the time that want to honor a family member or a pet. There is actually a sheepdog who's halfway in and halfway out. One of Scott's friends lost his dog, oberon, a couple of years ago, and so Oberon is halfway in and halfway out. We have Oberon's birthday every year at the carousel, so it's it's a great place to honor the complexity of the human experience, both the joy and the happiness, and also some of the more challenging elements of being human.

Speaker 1: 35:13

Yeah, yeah, I think in my podcast and yours we circle quite a lot around mindfulness. It seems like I still don't even know if I understand it. I'm still figuring things out. The older I get, I guess if I'm getting any wiser I'm figuring out. The older I get, the more I figure out. I really don't know, but in my podcast that I posted this previous week I talked about how it seems to me that you know you mentioned about people going back to their childhood when they ride the carousel. Oftentimes, when I'm out on my motorcycle, especially alone, and just all is right with the world, I use the expression. I return to my eight-year-old self, because I was eight years old when I first got a little mini bike, had a little lawnmower engine on it like three horsepower. Maybe I ride 145 horsepower these days, 140 anyway and I was on three horsepower then. But yeah, do you. And again to me, you know I keep going back and forth on the whole mindfulness thing. Is it zoning in or is it zoning out or what?

Speaker 2: 36:25

But as far as your personal, maybe your personal experience at experiencing mindfulness and and is that related at all to what people experience at the carousel or maybe what you experience- I do think it's related and I think my experience of mindfulness has also changed as I've evolved as a human and I loved your point last week on the podcast of zoning in and zoning out, because I think as a kid it feels like zoning in, but in adult language, because we get things all backwards and and it, we, it feels like a zoning out, but at the same time I feel far more present than than I did. Like I think there's there's mindful zoning out and then there's just disassociating you know we carry so much baggage right.

Speaker 1: 37:30

The older you get, maybe you have a spouse that you feel responsibility is there certainly career, certainly finances, staying healthy, being able to afford to stay healthy in this climate that we're in here in the United States these days. But yeah, it's a lot of loads, but as I think back to my 11 year old self, the load was do I have gas to go all day?

Speaker 1: 37:56

Of course, pretty much it. So, it seems. When people walk into the carousel and become their a little bit of their childlike self, that load goes away and then enters this mindfulness Like where I'm at right now and what I'm experiencing right now is really real. It's wonderful, the world is wonderful.

Speaker 2: 38:19

I think what I notice in folks is that most younger folks don't have a connection to a carousel. It's not like people in their 80s, because carousels were widely prevalent many, many years ago and aren't so much anymore. People don't have expectations when they walk through the door and even the folks that have been on a carousel it's been a hot minute, it's been a while, and I think that automatically forces people to get out of those rote, reactive ways of being. They don't have expectations. In the way that I walk into a coffee shop and I know what to expect. I know I might not have been in this coffee shop, but I know there's a line here and they're going to call my name and this, that the other People don't have that with carousels and it forces people to be present and I think that's just something, naturally, because it's a place unlike any other. It forces people to be in this moment and that's really all you need in life in general, quite frankly, but certainly in mindfulness, is to be present. There's, you know, some definitions of mindfulness would argue that you know your eyes need to be closed and you need to be meditating. To be meditating, that's not. I have a more expanded view of mindfulness, which is really just being as present to everything in my surroundings as possible. I'm not predicting the future, I'm not rehashing the past, but I'm here now and I think you see people interacting with each other in different ways. Families interact differently. A lot of times we see adults that come in and they might be on their phones. They definitely don't want to ride, they just want to like peek because they, you know. And then they, they experience the energy of the carousel. And I interviewed a researcher, a social work researcher from Denver University, because I asked him what is going on.

Speaker 2: 40:35

People one of two things typically happen when people come into the carousel they burst into tears and don't know why, and I know that because they start wiping their face and they're like I don't know why this just happened. Or they want to tell you their life story. People will sit and they will tell you and they're like I don't know why this just happened. Or they want to tell you their life story. People will sit and they will tell you. They'll say, oh, I haven't thought about this in so many years. And I asked him what was going on and he said it's actually because their bodies register the carousel as a safe space and their bodies register it before their minds can catch them in those old patterns and they just have all of this tension that just releases. Sometimes that's through tears, sometimes that's through laughing, sometimes that's through, you know, any number of things seeing their grandkid in a different, different light. And so our bodies are really really smart and they're able to regulate themselves if we essentially get out of the way, and so we see that in the carousel all the time.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Scott and I talk about sort of his creative process in general, and a lot of what he does is stare out the window. It's something that artists don't like to talk about, because there's this belief that, you know, we have these old ways of seeing productivity and sort of the way that we view it works if you're on a assembly line, but it doesn't if you're trying to create art. That has never existed, and a lot of the practice is closing your eyes and zoning out. And what do we mean by that? We mean not paying attention to these worldly things, these loads that we've taken on. Put those to the side for 15 minutes or an hour or whenever we have time, and a lot of what Scott has shared in his process. Yes, he's carving, yes, he's painting, but our culture understands that, we understand the doing part of it. But our culture understands that we understand the doing. Park Great. I like to mountain bike. We feel similarly when we're doing those same things and there's common ground, even if I've never been on a bike before, and so I think that you definitely see the mindfulness with people that come in being present.

Speaker 2: 43:29

There's also I need to find, um, there's a woman actually that manages the train cars next door and she just did her doctorate on the carousel and the and and I'm I'm not going to spoil it cause I don't I I'm trying to get her on the show and she's almost ready. She just finished, so she's tired, but once she's done, and she's almost ready, she just finished, so she's tired, but once she's done. But I want there. There are other studies that say spinning is actually really good for the brain. Um, so there's elements of that's why little kids you'll see a lot will spin, and it's because something's gotten cattywampus in their minds and they just know that if they spin it out they'll be fine. And so I think there are other elements physiologically that are at play with the carousel, but I haven't gotten a chance to tell those stories yet.

Speaker 1: 44:21

Yeah, well, you know I think you've already alluded to it and before we started recording I think I alluded to it as well. I personally feel a sense of urgency to spread the news about Life, can Be Happy that, yes, the news cycle drives me completely insane and of what's going on I won't get political at all. But what's going on in our own government here, wars, going on in countries outside of our scope, here, so much suffering, hard conversations with, well, my own employees, but other people in different organizations, especially in busy places like the Dallas-Fort Worth area, for example, where I go for business a good bit who are just suffering, who are just so stressed out they're trying to be a good husband or a good wife and make the kind of income that they feel like they should make, climb up the corporate ladder as they think they should, and they're just so unhappy. And I feel a sense of urgency behind that because, at least for me, since I was a little kid, the motorcycling thing getting on a machine that's really really well built, one that I've learned to ride really really well, and especially living here in Colorado as you and I do, being able to go into places where there's nobody there's going to be wildlife, which, in the motorcycling world, we've got to be watching for them because they will cross the road right in front of you. You'll know this. So Fall River Road, the old, one dirt road in Rocky Mountain National Park, is open.

Speaker 1: 46:15

One evening when I got free from work, I headed straight out there and rode up Fall River Road. I ran into some of my friends from Green Jeep Tours that were giving tours, but I was on my motorcycle and I was standing up on the pegs and going around the dirt and I came around the corner and a 1,500-pound moose was right there in front of me when I came around the corner. But I say all of that because you and I, both with your cycling and bicycling and with my motorcycling, we have the escape from the city and in a lot of ways we have learned to escape from the loads that we could be carrying, even those loads being coming from the new cycle, where we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, we don't know what's happening with the economy and so many things that can just drive people completely crazy and become so completely addictive. Completely crazy and become so completely addictive, I feel. So I'll use the word blast to have an outlet where, yes, this other stuff is going on and this other stuff is reality, right, and I get that a lot of bad stuff, but my whole.

Speaker 1: 47:22

For when I walk away from all of that and I go out and escape on my bike, I'll come back better equipped to be a better person, to be able to share my own story with either one of my employees or somebody in the organization that I work with. I think I've mentioned it before, I work for IBM, so really, really big company. But I was on multiple one-on-one meetings that I have set up with some of my employees just this morning. They're in some of them in India, and what I was relaying we're on video, just like this. I was relaying to them that I feel so fortunate that I get to not only be face-to-face, live with someone who's literally on the other side of the planet, who is 11 hours different from me, but I get a refresher to know that I've worked with people in Japan, all over the world. So many people are good people.

Speaker 1: 48:21

There are wonderful, good, good people that are everywhere in the world, and I just love that. Where am I going with this? I have no idea. I guess where I am going with that is that I think it's just so helpful to me to be able to take a motorcycle ride, to show up by myself or with a friend at the carousel and having the privilege of, over the past four or five years, getting to know Scott Harrison personally, having coffee together and knowing that this is a person who doesn't have all the answers at all.

Speaker 1: 48:57

But and he went through a really, really hard time but did he give up and get underneath the rock? No, he didn't. He threw a series of circumstances. He found that you know what, if I need to heal myself, maybe I should start with just trying to help out some others, and that's what I love.

Speaker 1: 49:16

I think he reflects on that in the Steve Hartman interview that maybe I can help myself by helping some others, and that's what I want to. Maybe, as we kind of begin to wrap up, just to thank you because you again, you came to that interview without having to have an idea for a podcast, but you've created one that you are sure you are clearly sharing your heart and your mind in and I hear your voice that you really really do care and you. It's not about raising funds necessarily for the carousel, but it's for having those smiles and that walk in the door and people are transformed and those little kids who write the little notes that this was meaningful for me and, like what you mentioned, people walk in and cry and they don't know why I get. I really do so.

Speaker 2: 50:07

I've been, I've been well, and I think one of the things that's most interesting to me about Scott's story is that it's sort of this like twofold approach. When he started he was carving to heal himself that yes, there is a negative form of selfishness, but I think as human beings we've gotten so fixated on what we think other people want that we're giving from an empty cup. And I think one of the things that was an important lesson for me to learn was that if you're excited about something, if you can't stop talking about it, if you love it so much, that is an indication that that's a path for you. And Scott's story is proof that if you first step in and work through the things and find your joy, find your passion he spent hours on this project, not out of obligation, not out of duty, but out of love, and then you can see how that trickled into the work and it trickles each and every day into the lives of others. So I think sometimes we get confused and we think, oh, people want me to be this. If I'm a good person, I'm going to do these things and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think what I've learned from Scott's story is that when you come from that full place when you fill up your cup and it literally flows over to other people.

Speaker 2: 52:01

Giving feels different, it feels effortless, it feels like you could do it forever. And I would argue and this is my own personal opinion, not Scott's I would argue that your joy, your enthusiasm is an indication that you've plugged into something larger than yourself. So now you're not just working with you, you're working with God. All that is spirit. Whatever word you want to describe, you have a partner in whatever it is that you're doing. And I think everyone wants to look at the impact that Scott has had with the carousel 1.2 million riders, 74,000 riders last year alone and the stories of the way that people were impacted. And that's all true, but it came from that seed of how can I do something? That just brings me joy. The thing is he loves carving animals. He's still carving animals. The carousel is done. He has no obligation to us. Oh yes.

Speaker 1: 53:05

I know this is an audio, but I'm showing a dove that is here on my desk. That was carved by Scott and it was an appreciation for maybe a donation or something quite a while back. The message he sent with that is, he said put your worries into the dove and the dove will fly them away. So my dove sits here. I'll put it back where it was. It sits here facing the window. This window's right there. So any number of times as I, as I'm talking to people or whatever, even within IBM, they'll notice what's the dove all about. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:43

So, and I think that's just how, I think it's just in the little nuances. I think I learned as a child there that polite people do these things, and it's true. But if the energy behind those things that you're doing isn't with a full and open heart, people can sense that they feel sort of the obligation of it. It just doesn't feel the same way. And so I think that from his story I've just seen that connection between him satisfying a deep need within him and then also seeing that that healing can come for other people as a that. It's not a zero sum game, it's not heal me or heal you, it's, it's both, and I think that's what I love sum game. It's not heal me or heal you.

Speaker 1: 54:40

It's both, and I think that's what I love so much about Scott's story. Yeah, and I got to tell you, allie, it's just now hit me, I don't know if you can see this. The picture right behind the dove is Walt Disney. I didn't plan this at all. I guess it's a good thing that I don't plan the podcast very much.

Speaker 2: 54:56

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 54:57

And we started this conversation where I mentioned about going to Disneyland with my son biting Dumbo and all that, and it's right next to the dove that Scott had carved and given to me. So, wow, this is a magical time.

Speaker 2: 55:10

I love it. It's a good story. Anecdote time.

Speaker 1: 55:17

I love it. It's a good story Anecdote, isn't that strange? Well, hey, I so appreciate your time. I want to. I want to ask you this maybe, maybe, in closing, you close every podcast episode of yours, the carousel of happiness podcast, with don't delay joy. What does that mean to you? What do you hope it means to others?

Speaker 2: 55:50

What it means to me is that joy is, first and foremost. It's the guiding light, rather than the tendency that humans have, at least in modern day, to sort of kick that further down the road. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I've got this list. Yeah, who saw very, very young, the, the. He saw very young that we weren't going to be here for a long time. He saw mortality. He didn't, thankfully, experience it, but he had an understanding that we're not here for a long time and that the way forward, particularly in challenging times like the ones that we're experiencing right now, the way forward is through joy. It's not through pushing against things that we don't want. It's not about pushing against people we don't quite understand. It's about finding joy in this moment, finding an open heart, finding pleasure because this is our birthright as human beings is joy, and different spiritual traditions have said similar things that we're born with it.

Speaker 2: 57:20

You talked about being an eight-year-old kid on a little bike. You didn't need to be told to be mindful, you just knew that it felt better to be mindful. It felt better to feel joy than not. And over the course of the human experience, we get wires crossed, and it's my view that the human experience is part of uncrossing those wires, unknotting that ball of yarn, so to speak, and remembering what is true, which is that this life is for pleasure, it's for joy, it's for love. And there are challenging times, to be sure, but Scott's story is a great example of how both of those things can exist in the same story, in the same body, in the same experience. Story in the same body, in the same experience.

Speaker 2: 58:20

And so, for me, that not delaying joy is just this reminder of what's really. It's that touchstone. You can always come back to it. It's almost like a tuning fork of like, you know, if you play a note on a guitar and a piano's nearby, that's going to also start to vibrate if they're the same, if they're the same note. And so, for me, that don't delay joy is just that tuning fork in that moment, am I aligned with what feels good in my body? Am I aligned with what feels joyful, or or am I not? And then, how do I? How do I get, get that turn back around? How do I get the cart and the horse in the right order, um, and and so that's what it means to me.

Speaker 1: 59:05

Well, I absolutely love the carousel. Um, I can't remember when I first wrote it, but it was surely not long after it was built. Uh, built because my wife and I used to Well, we still do. We go up to Nederland quite often. I've motorcycled up there ever since we moved here in 98. So, yeah, it's been quite a long time.

Speaker 1: 59:28

But not only, not only riding the carousel is the many times that, as I have, not only riding the carousel as the many times that as I have, but, most importantly, I would say, getting to know Scott as a real person, finding out who he is and having the opportunity to sit down over a cup of coffee and hearing this most humble of a person with such a huge heart for others. Like, it's not about me, it's, it's about everybody else, and I love that and I feel the same heart from you. And so I just I thank you so much. I was uh for those listening to I uh, please go out and give a listen to the carousel of happiness podcast, because it is wonderful. Just get yourself a beverage of your choice, have a seat and just listen, and I think you will. You will be impacted, just like I have.

Speaker 2: 1:00:20

So, thank you so much oh, thank you, ron, this was an absolute pleasure and a delight.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

Thank you, thank you, thank you when I think of the carousel and the people that come to visit, I'm just reminded. There's so many people who need to find a little bit of joy, a little bit of happiness. We, as motorcycle riders, know one way to find a little happiness to find a little joy on our bikes, and isn't it great that there's also a place to go. As always, thank you so much for listening. I wish you peace and I wish you love. It's just a lovely ride. Here's a little lovely ride. See me sliding down, gliding down. Try not to try too hard. It's just a lovely ride. The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.